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Transgender people in the military
sw - luke profile
obaona wrote in therightfangirl
I've seen a lot of argument over this, including a lot of stupid liberal 'gotcha' arguments about transgender people being dangerous in bathrooms but not in war, which only goes to prove liberals have no idea what their opponents' argument was. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, the thing I see least in the outrage over this is the emphasis on the correct thing: the military is not about fairness, equality, or either of those in the presence of disability. The military has one purpose, and one purpose only - to enact war and win it successfully. Anything and anyone that doesn't serve that goal needs to be put by the wayside. This, in my opinion, was the best argument about keeping women out of the military, and is why I believe women should never be in combat. It's a matter of effectiveness.

A transgender person at best is going to be expensive and complicated. What if a trans-man wants to be in combat? What if he's pre-op? What standards does the military judge him by - male or female? Where does he go to the bathroom? Do we have to make special accommodations across the entire military and in military vessels for him? What if he wants 'transition' surgery, which is cosmetic, and cannot serve for a year out of his term? Why should we be paying for that, for when we don't allow others in the military if they have medical problems? Who is transgender - those who have physically changed themselves, or those who are just 'mentally' trans?

At worst, you have a dangerously unstable individual being responsible for his/her life and others. Almost 50% of transgender people have a co-existing mental disorder, and around the same percentage will attempt suicide. Gender disphoria is still, technically, a disorder, it's just that they treat it with mutilation now instead of therapy. Wouldn't that medically disqualify them, logically speaking?

Personally, I think Trump should not have announced this over Twitter, and a lot of the actual policy is unknown at this point. I believe that transgenders currently in the military should probably be allowed to serve out their term and then be kicked out, with benefits. It should be possible for an exception to be made for a transgender person entering the military if said individual had a very, VERY useful skill, like speaking Arabic or building rockets. (As long as they are otherwise mentally stable, as determined by a psychiatrist.) But it should not be the norm.

What do you guys think?


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You make good points, and I agree with them. People with medical conditions should not enlist in the military! There are other ways to serve one's country. I myself failed to meet the Army's standards for health in the 1980s when they were crying for people. The military is not a PR service, and if we continue using them as such, the rest of the world will teach us a lesson in reality.

The Fox News commentators have brought up the "military isn't fair and this is about peak effectiveness" thing a lot on this issue. We don't see that point outside conservatives, though.

Yeah, the defense review of transgender was still in study and hasn't delivered final findings, yet, so Trump's announcement surprised a lot. The timing was a distraction.

I'm not a fan of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for elective surgeries for government employees.

I have mixed feelings about women in combat because I know women that have not been a hindrance in their units. Do I think women should get a free pass? No. Do I think women can earn their place if they do the exact same job a man does? Yeah.

Tech Guy's best friend's wife served over in the Bosnia conflicts. She's 5 feet tall, but carried the "saw" for her battle unit. She's a stocky little fireplug that emancipated at 16 and post-military worked full time while taking an insane amount of units for a college degree. The men in her unit all respected her because she carried her weight and worked at least as hard as they did.

If you're some big tall chick that can pass Ranger School and the only difference in your job is you pee sitting down, go for it.

Many historical civilizations have had women in combat in war. We also had the Greeks encouraging gay activity among soldiers because they thought the men would take care of each other the best if they were close in all ways. So there's no one-size-fits-all for militaries when you look at human history. It's about how to get the best soldiers out of *your* civilization for *your* practice of war.

I'd posted this a few days ago:

http://freebeacon.com/issues/transgender-surgeries-would-cost-pentagon-1-3-billion/
Transgender Surgeries Would Cost Pentagon $1.3 Billion
Sex-change surgeries cost an average $132,000 each

Internal data provided to the Washington Free Beacon from Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R., Mo.), a leading opponent of taxpayer-funded sex changes, show that even by using a conservative estimate, the costs associated with 0.7 percent of the military population is great.

Hartzler's office provided a detailed calculation that shows estimates of the current number of transgender service members, and the number likely to seek a taxpayer-funded gender transition.

"The 10-year cost estimate is for surgery only and is adjusted for 3 percent inflation; it accounts for Active Duty, Guard, and Reserve members currently serving as well as new recruits over the same time period," the document states. "It uses the FY 18 DoD number for total number of military members and multiplies it by the percentage of military personnel assumed to be transgender as reported by the UCLA Williams Institute and the National Center for Transgender Equality."

The 2014 Williams Institute study found there were 15,500 transgender individuals actively serving, or 0.7 percent of the military population. By adjusting the figure for the enlistment numbers of 2,130,000, there are currently 14,910 transgender service members.

Thirty percent will likely seek surgeries, or 4,473 transgender troops. The average cost per surgery is $132,000, which is a combination of the average cost of male to female ($140,450) and female to male ($124,400) surgeries.

The cost to taxpayers for these surgeries would be $590 million, and $770 million with a 3 percent inflation rate by 2027.

Hartzler's office calculated the additional costs of surgeries for new transgender recruits every year.

There are 178,000 new military members per year, and assuming 0.7 percent are transgender, 1,246 new transgender service members each year. Assuming 30 percent get surgeries, there would be an additional 374 surgical transitions per year, or 3,740 over 10 years. Those surgeries would cost $493 million, and with 3 percent inflation a total of $579 million by 2027.

The costs of active duty transgender surgeries and those of new recruits over a 10-year period total $1.349 billion.

It is likely even more transgender service members would seek sex reassignment surgeries if they are taxpayer-funded.

More than 30 percent of transgender individuals say they want to have various sex reassignment surgeries in the future, according to the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey.

Fifty-three percent of men who identify as women say they someday want a breast augmentation, and 61 percent say want an orchiectomy, the surgical removal of one or both testicles, in the future.

Sixty-four percent say they want a vaginoplasty, the construction of a vagina, someday.

Hartzler's office said their cost estimate is more accurate than a study commissioned under the Obama administration by the RAND Corporation, which is federally funded by the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

The RAND study only provided cost estimates for one year, did not adjust for inflation, and only included active duty transgender troops, and not from the National Guard and Reserve.

The RAND study also used a much lower estimate of the number of transgender individuals in the military, between 1,320 and 6,630. The Navy estimates there are at least 13,000 transgender individuals serving in the military, and the Williams Institute reported over 15,000 in 2014.

The RAND study also estimates only 5 percent would seek surgery, a much lower figure than the 30 percent average reported in the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Furthermore, the study does not use cost estimates of the actual surgeries, but only the cost increase in private insurance premiums for plans that cover transgender services.

Hartzler's office also points out the RAND study was commissioned by former secretary of defense Ash Carter under "the presumption that transgender persons can serve openly without adverse impact on military effectiveness and readiness."

The military is not a social engineering project.

I also find something terribly wrong with a society where able-bodied men stay home while 17-year-old 80 pound girls are sent to become hamburger meat and rape victims in some savage land. I've noticed how so many American men are disavowing responsibility for anything. They have literally nothing they are willing to fight to the death to defend: not their wives, not their children, not their towns, nothing. They just want to sit around and smoke pot and complain. Feminism I suppose might have something to do with this but I also think too many men use feminism as a cop out to be lazy and uninvolved.

That got explained in Anonymous Conservative's r/K theory. Left wing men are evolving to become overly feminized, non-confrontational, non-loyal sperm donors who care about nothing but satisfying their own indulgences.

Biological males should definitely keep their gender dysphoria secret if they are able to meet the physical and mental standards to join the military. This whole idea of males wanting to be openly transgender in the military is absurd. When recruits go through boot camp, they have people screaming in their faces that they are nobody, dirt, maggots, etc. because one is expected to give up his individuality to become disciplined and learn how to work as a unit. They're expected to become hardened soldiers, so like it's not practical to hold onto that sensitivity over being 'misgendered' that the sjws whine about overly much.

Like any situation where things are getting effed up good, they probably have a lot of people who aren't even soldiers telling them how to run the military.

I agree with the idea of women not being allowed in combat. Work Bestie was telling me a story about how a guy in the military had to serve in a unit with women. The men had to carry 125lb bags full of extra equipment, -like mortar rounds and such- whereas the women only had to carry their own stuff because women aren't made to carry a lot of weight. It's just the way it is.

I expressed the opinion at work that women shouldn't serve. Some guy started joking that 'women should just stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen' to try and rile me up. That never works on me because I'm able to let go of my ego and think of what is best for everybody. Try to get the average sjw tranny to do that.

I joked around, like, "Who would you rather have on your death squad, (childishly delicate) me or (6'4" big boned) Work Bestie?"

The guy replied, "Welll...it's not like people even fight in close combat anymore. They just sit in a room and push buttons."

It's like he kind of saw the point of how absurd it would be to have women in the military, but he wanted to reason himself into thinking he's still right, because, hey, women could always sit in rooms out of danger and push buttons, right? How would one even know that's true without being in the military? It's all guessing.

They actually don't scream at you and call you names to break you down anymore. You can even take mental wellness days during Boot. Tap out if it feels too hard. The Marines especially did an over-correction from the training techniques that kinda made a few too many psychos in the Vietnam era. There's also no cussing, no tattoos.....all about being 'nice and civilized' during the Obama era.

I suppose it didn't go from zero to trans people openly serving in the military in one day. What next though? Safe spaces where recruits can go pass around tissues and have a good cry when something offends them? (Such as someone getting 'misgendered', lol).

Edited at 2017-08-06 10:45 pm (UTC)

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